Comments on: Freedom of information production and distribution http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/ Mindblogging the world to itself Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:33:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: aigarius http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-85110 aigarius Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:47:46 +0000 http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-85110 When you filter spam based on a CAPTCHA, the only thing that you are detecting is whether the writer is a person or a computer algorithm. It is a discrimination against AI, if you will :) I am all fine with doing that. Content based trainable spam filters is a bit touchier, because you can train them to think that all posts containing words that you do not like are spam. You just need be strict to yourself and never delete a comment that you simply do not like. When you filter spam based on a CAPTCHA, the only thing that you are detecting is whether the writer is a person or a computer algorithm. It is a discrimination against AI, if you will :) I am all fine with doing that.
Content based trainable spam filters is a bit touchier, because you can train them to think that all posts containing words that you do not like are spam. You just need be strict to yourself and never delete a comment that you simply do not like.

]]> By: Computer Freak http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-84242 Computer Freak Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:48:19 +0000 http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-84242 Spamming has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Spamming is for commercial purpose and does not explain any opinion. -- my opinion Spamming has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Spamming is for commercial purpose and does not explain any opinion.

– my opinion

]]> By: Axel http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83732 Axel Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:10:31 +0000 http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83732 Maybe it's the language barrier, but I see no explanation in your post on how filtering out spammers is different from filtering out obnoxious people. Maybe it’s the language barrier, but I see no explanation in your post on how filtering out spammers is different from filtering out obnoxious people.

]]> By: aigarius http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83388 aigarius Thu, 17 Jan 2008 04:07:12 +0000 http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83388 The CAPTCHA does not censor based on the content of the message. It also does not censor based on who the author of the message. Setting up a filter on your own blog to not accept any comments containing word "penis" or any comments from a particular person or a particular IP block or country would be censorship as such. Of course it would be hard to object to what you do with your own blog, but it still does not change the fact that it still is censorship, while CAPTCHA is not. The CAPTCHA does not censor based on the content of the message. It also does not censor based on who the author of the message.

Setting up a filter on your own blog to not accept any comments containing word “penis” or any comments from a particular person or a particular IP block or country would be censorship as such. Of course it would be hard to object to what you do with your own blog, but it still does not change the fact that it still is censorship, while CAPTCHA is not.

]]> By: Axel http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83320 Axel Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:05:30 +0000 http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83320 Please give me a single argument why that would be censorship that is not equally true to the captcha _you_ have on your site to stop spammers. Please give me a single argument why that would be censorship that is not equally true to the captcha _you_ have on your site to stop spammers.

]]> By: aigarius http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83310 aigarius Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:41:34 +0000 http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83310 I really do not care who said those words. I stand for the concept that these words represent. Taking a "moral" stand based on the morality of a minority (or even a majority) and then censoring the rest to conform to that morality is the very basic censorship. Look up what a 'censor' was in Roman times. Everyone has the right to say what they like. You have the right to ignore them. There are technical measures for that - client side filtering to be specific. Forcing your filters on all other participants in the communication (such as banning such speech or such people from the channel) is a form of censorship. Failure to clearly admit that is again very reminiscent of the adjustments in language from '1984'. I really do not care who said those words. I stand for the concept that these words represent.

Taking a “moral” stand based on the morality of a minority (or even a majority) and then censoring the rest to conform to that morality is the very basic censorship. Look up what a ‘censor’ was in Roman times.

Everyone has the right to say what they like. You have the right to ignore them. There are technical measures for that - client side filtering to be specific. Forcing your filters on all other participants in the communication (such as banning such speech or such people from the channel) is a form of censorship.

Failure to clearly admit that is again very reminiscent of the adjustments in language from ‘1984′.

]]> By: Axel http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83297 Axel Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:45:02 +0000 http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83297 First of all, that “Voltair” quote is misattributed, there is no evidence that he ever said anything like that. Check WikiQuotes if you don't belive me. It's a pompous sound bite that people like to throw around when they want to defend themselves for acting like jerks, and it sounds better when attributed to a famous dead guy, is all. And this of course leads up to the main point about your post, which is another common misconception. Everybody has the freedom of speech, to say whatever they like. But that does not in any way, shape or form imply that other people have an obigation to listen or help promote said speech. Even if that Voltair quote had been real, do you think he would have let any idiot of the street walk in and add an extra chapter to Candide? Of course not. Saying “We do not want hate speech to be associated with Debian, but you are free to go shout on your own” is not censorship, it is taking a moral stand. Nothing more, nothing less. Personally, I doubt the Debian project will take such a moral stand, but there you go. First of all, that “Voltair” quote is misattributed, there is no evidence that he ever said anything like that. Check WikiQuotes if you don’t belive me. It’s a pompous sound bite that people like to throw around when they want to defend themselves for acting like jerks, and it sounds better when attributed to a famous dead guy, is all.

And this of course leads up to the main point about your post, which is another common misconception. Everybody has the freedom of speech, to say whatever they like. But that does not in any way, shape or form imply that other people have an obigation to listen or help promote said speech.

Even if that Voltair quote had been real, do you think he would have let any idiot of the street walk in and add an extra chapter to Candide? Of course not. Saying “We do not want hate speech to be associated with Debian, but you are free to go shout on your own” is not censorship, it is taking a moral stand. Nothing more, nothing less. Personally, I doubt the Debian project will take such a moral stand, but there you go.

]]> By: Miriam Ruiz http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83267 Miriam Ruiz Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:18:33 +0000 http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83267 [...] by Bernhard’s comment about that not being tolerable to do so under Debian’s flag. Aigarius replied kinda shocked that stopping verbal abuses and violence would be censorship. AJ clearly explained the reasons why that shouldn’t be tolerated in Debian, but Aigarius [...] [...] by Bernhard’s comment about that not being tolerable to do so under Debian’s flag. Aigarius replied kinda shocked that stopping verbal abuses and violence would be censorship. AJ clearly explained the reasons why that shouldn’t be tolerated in Debian, but Aigarius [...]

]]> By: aigarius http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83052 aigarius Wed, 16 Jan 2008 06:25:42 +0000 http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83052 > > denying them the right to speak (or segregating them to non-Debian communication channels) is clear and simple censorship > > There is a not-so-small difference between complaining and censorship. Not too much if the complaint demands action from a third party that has the technical ability to satisfy such demands. IMO. > > denying them the right to speak (or segregating them to non-Debian communication channels) is clear and simple censorship
>
> There is a not-so-small difference between complaining and censorship.

Not too much if the complaint demands action from a third party that has the technical ability to satisfy such demands. IMO.

]]> By: Felipe Sateler http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83037 Felipe Sateler Wed, 16 Jan 2008 05:21:11 +0000 http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2008/01/16/freedom-of-information-production-and-distribution/#comment-83037 > denying them the right to speak (or segregating them to non-Debian communication channels) is clear and simple censorship There is a not-so-small difference between complaining and censorship. > denying them the right to speak (or segregating them to non-Debian communication channels) is clear and simple censorship

There is a not-so-small difference between complaining and censorship.

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